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[General Purpose Graphical Introspection]


 
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robertosfield
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Joined: 18 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:00 am    Post subject:
[General Purpose Graphical Introspection]
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Hi Julien,


It's kinda hard to know what you are after.  If you want companies or individual to fund something they'd need to know what is being developed for the money, time frames, costs etc.

Robert.


On 16 January 2015 at 09:50, Julien Valentin < (
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Hello dear OSG-community,

http://youtu.be/yAYs5-lYj7k
Is anyone know how to raise money for this kind of project?


Best regards,
Julien

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kornerr
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:07 pm    Post subject:
[General Purpose Graphical Introspection]
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Looks like some kind of editor with an ugly interface. You can have a look at Unity3D for interface hints. As for raising the money, Unity3D allows one to do a lot more for free, so yours should be better.


2015-01-17 17:53 GMT+07:00 Robert Osfield < (
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Quote:
Hi Julien,


It's kinda hard to know what you are after.  If you want companies or individual to fund something they'd need to know what is being developed for the money, time frames, costs etc.

Robert.


On 16 January 2015 at 09:50, Julien Valentin < (
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)> wrote:
Quote:
Hello dear OSG-community,

http://youtu.be/yAYs5-lYj7k
Is anyone know how to raise money for this kind of project?


Best regards,
Julien

------------------
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http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=62343#62343





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mp3butcher (Julien Valentin)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:47 pm    Post subject:
Re: [General Purpose Graphical Introspection]
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I tryied to explain on the website osg4noob.olympe.in but it's not very technically detailled....
The basic idea was to use QT MetaModel in order to do the same as cppintrospection...
But QML seamed quite promising in order to bring both wrapping and graphical boxing


So I develop some kind of preprecompiler (before moc) that read cpp headers and generates customisable QMLplugin code in order to handle:
-Nodal logic (copy/paste via config file)
-Pointer life cycle ( handle smartpointer/normalpointer via config file)
-Native object boxing (put native object in QT boxes)
-QML method wrapping (not finished..I'm doing it by hand for the moment)

So the purpose of the underlying tool is not restricted to osg but almost all cpp libraries (without twisted stuff...ex: I have some problems parsing Bullet headers)

So long,Yes, the interface is ugly because osg is my testbench and I have lower level things to do..(Further Unity3d seams great , but proprietary and not free so I don't learn it )

kornerr wrote:
Looks like some kind of editor with an ugly interface. You can have a look at Unity3D for interface hints. As for raising the money, Unity3D allows one to do a lot more for free, so yours should be better.


2015-01-17 17:53 GMT+07:00 Robert Osfield < (
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Quote:
Hi Julien,


It's kinda hard to know what you are after.  If you want companies or individual to fund something they'd need to know what is being developed for the money, time frames, costs etc.

Robert.


On 16 January 2015 at 09:50, Julien Valentin < (
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
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)> wrote:
Quote:
Hello dear OSG-community,

http://youtu.be/yAYs5-lYj7k
Is anyone know how to raise money for this kind of project?


Best regards,
Julien

------------------
Read this topic online here:
http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=62343#62343





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robertosfield
OSG Project Lead


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 10777

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:29 pm    Post subject:
[General Purpose Graphical Introspection]
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Hi Julien,

On 17 January 2015 at 18:47, Julien Valentin < (
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Quote:
I tryied to explain on the website osg4noob.olympe.in but it's not very technically detailled....
The basic idea was to use QT MetaModel in order to do the same as cppintrospection...


I am not familiar with the QT MetaModel so can't comment on this in particular, but for introspection you can use the osgDB::PropertyInterface that is in the svn/trunk version of the OSG.  I wrote this to facilitate scripting integration.  The PropertInterface class provides a front end for querrying the interfaces of classes, creating objects, calling methods, getting properties in a generic way.  The osgDB serializers are used in the hood to do the integration with the OSG classes.


Robert.

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mp3butcher (Julien Valentin)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:05 pm    Post subject:
Re: [General Purpose Graphical Introspection]
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robertosfield wrote:


I am not familiar with the QT MetaModel so can't comment on this in particular, but for introspection you can use the osgDB::PropertyInterface that is in the svn/trunk version of the OSG.  I wrote this to facilitate scripting integration.  The PropertInterface class provides a front end for querrying the interfaces of classes, creating objects, calling methods, getting properties in a generic way.  The osgDB serializers are used in the hood to do the integration with the OSG classes.


Robert.

Yeah, I noticed the new (and great) buit-in introspection in osg::serialization..
I only write to osgb and osgt now:)
But as I aim general c++ code and not only osg I don't exploit this feature in my work...
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mp3butcher (Julien Valentin)
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Joined: 17 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:56 am    Post subject:
Re: [General Purpose Graphical Introspection]
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Corrected post with a little more info

My basic idea was to use QT wrapping in order to do create and call method object at runtime as cppintrospection …
But QML seamed quite promising in order to bring both wrapping and graphical boxing.

So I develop some kind of preprecompiler (before moc so I called it pmoc) that read cpp headers and generates customisable QMLplugin code in order to handle:
-Nodal logic ( via config file:copy/paste+fx ambiguities leverage)
-Pointer life cycle ( via config file: handle smartpointer/normalpointer)
-Native object boxing (put native object in QT boxes)
-Graphical menu for action ambiguities leverage (when selected and copied type can be used in several action
-CPP2QML method wrapping (not finished..I’m doing it by hand for the moment)

I tryied to explain a test case applying code generation to OpenSceneraph library on the website but it’s not very technically detailled….(and written in French)
http://osg4noob.olympe.in

Here's a gross demo
http://youtu.be/yAYs5-lYj7k

Here's an eldest video showing how to create a particle system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAxGVT_d1bE


So the purpose of the underlying tool is not restricted to osg but almost all cpp libraries (without twisted stuff…ex: I have some grammar problems parsing Bullet headers)

So Before you tell it “Yes, the interface is ugly” because osg is my testbench and I have lower level things to do like improve the generated code for ex…

Here’s an external reference about something near to what i’m doing (https://www.qtdeveloperdays.com/2013/sites/default/files/presentation_pdf/QtDevDaysSFO-2013_WrappingCppForQml_final.pdf)
Is anyone know how to raise money for this kind of project?


Best regards,
Julien
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kornerr
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Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:33 pm    Post subject:
[General Purpose Graphical Introspection]
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So what problems does your software solve exactly? I couldn't understand it.


2015-01-22 18:56 GMT+07:00 Julien Valentin < (
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
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)>:
Quote:
Corrected post with a little more info

My basic idea was to use QT wrapping in order to do create and call method object at runtime as cppintrospection …
But QML seamed quite promising in order to bring both wrapping and graphical boxing.

So I develop some kind of preprecompiler (before moc so I called it pmoc) that read cpp headers and generates customisable QMLplugin code in order to handle:
-Nodal logic ( via config file:copy/paste+fx ambiguities leverage)
-Pointer life cycle ( via config file: handle smartpointer/normalpointer)
-Native object boxing (put native object in QT boxes)
-Graphical menu for action ambiguities leverage (when selected and copied type can be used in several action
-CPP2QML method wrapping (not finished..I’m doing it by hand for the moment)

I tryied to explain a test case applying code generation to OpenSceneraph library on the website  but it’s not very technically detailled….(and written in French)
http://osg4noob.olympe.in

Here's a gross demo
http://youtu.be/yAYs5-lYj7k

Here's an eldest video showing how to create a particle system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAxGVT_d1bE


So the purpose of the underlying tool is not restricted to osg but almost all cpp libraries (without twisted stuff…ex: I have some grammar problems parsing Bullet headers)

So Before you tell it “Yes, the interface is ugly” because osg is my testbench and I have lower level things to do like improve the generated code for ex…

Here’s an external reference about something near to what i’m doing (https://www.qtdeveloperdays.com/2013/sites/default/files/presentation_pdf/QtDevDaysSFO-2013_WrappingCppForQml_final.pdf)
Is anyone know how to raise money for this kind of project?


Best regards,
Julien

------------------
Read this topic online here:
http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=62427#62427





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mp3butcher (Julien Valentin)
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Joined: 17 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:17 pm    Post subject:
Re: [General Purpose Graphical Introspection]
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the problem i try to solve is generalized runtime graphical programmation.
I'll try to stay simple:
pmoc generates customisables and extendables graphical components embedding objects methods and they can be use in a generic Editor to demonstrate the ability to do "runtime graphical programmation":
The paste feature introspects the selected object and calls the method that can be used with copied object as a parameter. If several methods fit the couple (class of selected /class of copied) then a menu popup in order to ask you which you want to call.
So It avoids programmation and compilation steps as all is done at runtime.
osg is perfect experiment candidate to be instrumentalised with pmoc as:
- osg objects have an expression in 3D (not purely logic)
- all objects of all libraries are homogenous (no "articulation" problem between libs)
- objects have a lot of single parameter arguments (perfect for the generated nodal logic)
- osg provides serialization!!

But more globally (and from my point of view), pmoc allows to highlight features (and so on bugs:) ) of C++ heterogenous (or not in the case of my osg experiment) libraries and allows to mix them in a generalized QT graphical context in order to manipulate them.

Personnally, I use osg4noob to introspect my own unfinished classes when i'm not sure of what I happen (and so try to fix them graphically before to hardcode in c++) or when the scene is becoming too complex/dirty to be understandable/manipulated programmatically.

It saves me a lot of coding time and so I thought the underlying pmoc was
an interesting project to developp deeper as it is ( i repeat it again) not restricted to osg instrumentalisation.

+:
-MetaModel doesn't require code instrumentalisation(like osgintrospection) , it generates the Qt instrumentalisation.
-QT based, generated components are easy to customize in C++ or to manipulates at runtime in QML ( unlike osgintrospection;) )
-pmoc is inscriptible in an automated compilation pipeline
sources---pmoc-->customisablesources--moc--yourfavoritecompiler-->ComponentPlugin

-: (unlike osgintrospection it is not based on doxygen)
-pmoc relies on a C++syntaxic parser so it doesn't read all library headers (For my eternal damnation with the C++ grammar ...)
-pmoc need total rewriting

pmoc!=cppintrospection
pmoc is not wrapping but boxing
it permit to inject at runtime natively created object in a "box" that is in charge of calling method on it

kornerr wrote:
So what problems does your software solve exactly? I couldn't understand it.
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kornerr
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Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:54 am    Post subject:
[General Purpose Graphical Introspection]
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It would be nice to see some explanation video with real world examples of yours.


2015-01-23 6:17 GMT+07:00 Julien Valentin < (
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Quote:
I'll try to stay simple:
pmoc generate customisable and extendable graphical components embedding objects method and I use in a generic Editor to demonstrate the ability to do "runtime graphical programmation":
The paste feature introspects the selected object and calls the method that can be used with copied object as a parameter. If several methods fit the couple (class of selected /class of copied) then a menu popup in order to ask you which you want to call.
So It avoids programmation and compilation steps as all is done at runtime.

More globally (and from my point of view), it allows to highlight features  (and so on bugs) of  C++ heterogenous (or not in the case of my osg experiment) libraries and allows to mix them in a generalized graphical context to manipulate them.

Personnally, I use osg4noob to introspect my own classes when i'm not sure of what I'm doing(where to put what) or when my scene is becoming too complex (ex:it allows to know which PagedLOD are in RAM). It saves me a lot of coding time and so I thought the underlying pmoc was an interesting project to developp deeper.




kornerr wrote:
Quote:
So what problems does your software solve exactly? I couldn't understand it.



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mp3butcher (Julien Valentin)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:00 pm    Post subject:
Re: [General Purpose Graphical Introspection]
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mp3butcher wrote:
the problem i try to solve is generalized runtime graphical programmation.
I'll try to stay simple:
pmoc generates customisables and extendables graphical components embedding objects methods and they can be use in a generic Editor to demonstrate the ability to do "runtime graphical programmation":
The paste feature introspects the selected object and calls the method that can be used with copied object as a parameter. If several methods fit the couple (class of selected /class of copied) then a menu popup in order to ask you which you want to call.
So It avoids programmation and compilation steps as all is done at runtime.
osg is perfect experiment candidate to be instrumentalised with pmoc as:
- osg objects have an expression in 3D (not purely logic)
- all objects of all libraries are homogenous (no "articulation" problem between libs)
- objects have a lot of single parameter arguments (perfect for the generated nodal logic)
- osg provides serialization!!

But more globally (and from my point of view), pmoc allows to highlight features (and so on bugs:) ) of C++ heterogenous (or not in the case of my osg experiment) libraries and allows to mix them in a generalized QT graphical context in order to manipulate them.

Personnally, I use osg4noob to introspect my own unfinished classes when i'm not sure of what I happen (and so try to fix them graphically before to hardcode in c++) or when the scene is becoming too complex/dirty to be understandable/manipulated programmatically.

It saves me a lot of coding time and so I thought the underlying pmoc was
an interesting project to developp deeper as it is ( i repeat it again) not restricted to osg instrumentalisation.

+:
-MetaModel doesn't require code instrumentalisation(like osgintrospection) , it generates the Qt instrumentalisation.
-QT based, generated components are easy to customize in C++ and to manipulates at runtime in QML ( unlike osgintrospection;) )
-pmoc is inscriptible in an automated compilation pipeline
sources---pmoc-->customisablesources--moc--yourfavoritecompiler-->ComponentPlugin

-: (unlike osgintrospection it is not based on doxygen)
-pmoc relies on a C++syntaxic parser so it doesn't read all library headers (For my eternal damnation with the C++ grammar ...)
-pmoc need total rewriting

pmoc!=cppintrospection
pmoc is not wrapping but boxing
it allows to inject at runtime natively created object in a "box" that is in charge of calling method on it

kornerr wrote:
So what problems does your software solve exactly? I couldn't understand it.
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cbuchner1
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Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:58 am    Post subject:
[General Purpose Graphical Introspection]
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You could try the bitcoin based Lighthouse crowdfunding platform, authored by Mike Hearn.

It is currently in a public beta phase.


However crowdfunding for such a specialized project might be hard (consider the pool of
potentially interested people quite small, then consider the even smaller subgroup of people
who also happen to browse your crowdfunding platform of choice).


Maybe you manage to build a few convincing demo applications on top of your framework

to actually illustrate why your framework creates added value.



Christian Buchner


.





2015-01-16 10:50 GMT+01:00 Julien Valentin < (
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)>:
Quote:
Hello dear OSG-community,

http://youtu.be/yAYs5-lYj7k
Is anyone know how to raise money for this kind of project?


Best regards,
Julien

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Read this topic online here:
http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=62343#62343





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mp3butcher (Julien Valentin)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:29 pm    Post subject:
Re: [General Purpose Graphical Introspection]
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I rewrote all the stuff in order to be integrated in a compilation pipeline:
Here's the new skin (some artefact due to a misuse of the garbage collector)
video is about
-connected particle system creation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_AGSXsGeuM
-PageLOD example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gLGee3Q6GA
-glsl hacking (pssm)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fea8QLxoKX0
-Render2Texture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5LWZqLQYQI
(set the quality to 720 in order the text to be readable)
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