OpenSceneGraph Forum Forum Index OpenSceneGraph Forum
Official forum which mirrors the existent OSG mailing lists. Messages posted here are forwarded to the mailing list and vice versa.
 
   FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist    RulesRules    UsergroupsUsergroups    RegisterRegister 
 Mail2Forum SettingsMail2Forum Settings  ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
   AlbumAlbum  OpenSceneGraph IRC ChatOpenSceneGraph IRC Chat   SmartFeedSmartFeed 

Shadow Shenanigans (Implementing shadows in OpenMW and associated experiments)


 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    OpenSceneGraph Forum Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
AnyOldName3 (Chris Djali)
User


Joined: 08 Sep 2017
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject:
Shadow Shenanigans (Implementing shadows in OpenMW and associated experiments)
Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm currently in the process of trying to make shadows work in OpenMW and am therefore trying to learn about osgShadow and also convince it to do a bunch of things.

I have several questions, so I'll try and organise them nicely with bullet points and subheadings etc. In case it affects any of this, I'll also include some system details here:

OS: Windows 10, post-'Creators Update'
GPU: Radeon RX Vega 56
GPU Driver: 17.9.1

All testing described here occurs with Scrawl's OSG-On-Steroids fork (github com/OpenMW/osg dot replaced by a space so I can actually post this), which is preferred for OpenMW, and if it turns out that any of my issues are magically fixed in 3.5.x, it means the fix will have to be backported, as there are good reasons why OpenMW uses the fork.

Examples osgshadow

  • As described in another user's thread (forum openscenegraph org/viewtopic.php?t=16521 dots replaced by spaces so I can actually post this), there are issues with the shadow example. I am no longer wholly convinced that I need any scenes other than number four to actually work, so this isn't the end of the world for me.
  • Even when using scene four, there are several shadow techniques which appear to do nothing or do something very wrong. I guess I can provide further information if critical, but I've found that LispSM mostly works, so I'm using that.
  • LispSM specifically

    • There's something wrong with how backfaces are culled when rendering the shadow map for LispSM. The island scene uses a lot of non-manifold meshes, so the backfaces absolutely have to be considered for the shadow map to be correct. There was also some other weirdness I noticed with this (I can't remember the specifics right now), but I think having manifold meshes or disabling backface culling would fix that, too.
      I went hunting through the source code and figured out how to disable the culling in StandardShadowMap, and that fixes scene four.
    • The cast and receive shadow node masks are completely ignored. I'm not sure if this is a technical problem or just an oversight, but it has the potential to make bad things happen.



I've started using LispSM with OpenMW now, as everything else either provides unusably poor results, breaks stuff, or does nothing.

OpenMW & LispSM

  • Some shadows seem to end up rendered on the skybox. I'm pretty sure the skybox is rendered really close to the camera in an early render bin, and then the depth buffer is cleared before the rest of the scene gets rendered. If I can't make nodemasks work with LispSM, the scene graph could need some serious rearranging.
  • Some shadows seem to disappear when they fall on something close to the camera. This is probably just a constant that needs changing. I can replicate this in the shadow example, but for that, I have to zoom in ridiculously far.
  • Some shadows have holes or bits missing. I think this is the same backface culling issue as in the island scene as Bethesda's meshes are often crappy.
  • The shadow on a specific door looks like it might be the wrong colour at a very specific time of day. That's probably just Bethesda's fault for setting up a material weirdly, and I can probably tweak this more easily when using OpenMW in shader mode.


Many thanks for any answers,

AnyOldName3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
robertosfield
OSG Project Lead


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 12353

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:38 am    Post subject:
Shadow Shenanigans (Implementing shadows in OpenMW and associated experiments)
Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm currently in the process of trying to make shadows work in OpenMW and am therefore trying to learn about osgShadow and also convince it to do a bunch of things.


With osgShadow we've tried quite a few different approaches to provide a general purpose shadow implementation, each technique has different strengths and weaknesses.  As things stand there isn't any one approach that works well in a wide range of tasks. 



Personally, these days with applications having their own shaders and mutlipass technique I feel that osgShadow is less and less the best tool to use.  Instead I would suggest coming up with a shadow implementation that is tailored to the needs of your application.  This does mean leaning more about how to implement shadowing so slower to get up to speed, but long term it's likely to be better.



Many thanks for any answers,
Quote:

AnyOldName3


Really?  AnyOldName3 is a crap, stupid, insulting to everyone else name.  It's not clever or respetful to others in the community.  Forum's/mailing lists are poor substitute for face to face conversation, one way we can try to round of the edges is by community in human ways  Please come up with a more grown up pseudonym if you can't use your own name.  There are so many cool names in fiction that you could pick, go be creative.



Robert.





 

------------------
Post generated by Mail2Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Maurizio Vitale
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject:
Shadow Shenanigans (Implementing shadows in OpenMW and associated experiments)
Reply with quote

I'm confused, what is so offensive in AnyOldName3? Stupid, I'd agree, but offensive, I just don't see it.Unless there's some inside story I'm not privy to, I don't follow this list regularly.
And isn't the real name the one in the 'from' field?


Maurizio




On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 4:38 AM, Robert Osfield < (
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!
)> wrote:
Quote:



Quote:
I'm currently in the process of trying to make shadows work in OpenMW and am therefore trying to learn about osgShadow and also convince it to do a bunch of things.


With osgShadow we've tried quite a few different approaches to provide a general purpose shadow implementation, each technique has different strengths and weaknesses.  As things stand there isn't any one approach that works well in a wide range of tasks. 



Personally, these days with applications having their own shaders and mutlipass technique I feel that osgShadow is less and less the best tool to use.  Instead I would suggest coming up with a shadow implementation that is tailored to the needs of your application.  This does mean leaning more about how to implement shadowing so slower to get up to speed, but long term it's likely to be better.



Many thanks for any answers,
Quote:

AnyOldName3


Really?  AnyOldName3 is a crap, stupid, insulting to everyone else name.  It's not clever or respetful to others in the community.  Forum's/mailing lists are poor substitute for face to face conversation, one way we can try to round of the edges is by community in human ways  Please come up with a more grown up pseudonym if you can't use your own name.  There are so many cool names in fiction that you could pick, go be creative.



Robert.





 





_______________________________________________
osg-users mailing list
(
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!
)
http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org



------------------
Post generated by Mail2Forum
Back to top
psi29a
Newbie


Joined: 12 Aug 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:40 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hi Robert,

AnyOldName3, or AON3 for short, is a respected OpenMW developer. I don't see how their nickname has any merit on a technical discussion. Maybe they want to distance themselves from their work and keep a pseudonym, who are we to care so long as they are willing and able to contribute?

Here is what AON3 has done so far with OSG's osgShadow with OpenMW using game content from another developer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDr7o-Ft4R4&feature=youtu.be

Cheers,
bret (because my nickname is too unique)


Last edited by psi29a on Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:44 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
psi29a
Newbie


Joined: 12 Aug 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:40 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Now here is how to get offended:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-mju_gW3c8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
robertosfield
OSG Project Lead


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 12353

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject:
Shadow Shenanigans (Implementing shadows in OpenMW and associated experiments)
Reply with quote

On 21 September 2017 at 18:03, Maurizio Vitale < (
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!
)> wrote:
Quote:
I'm confused, what is so offensive in AnyOldName3? Stupid, I'd agree, but offensive, I just don't see it.


It's been done with a complete lack of respect for the system asking for user human readable names.  It's  unnecessary and counter-productive disregard for etiquette of communication in a community. You might not find it offensive, I do, I'm sure others do as well.


 
Once some users start disregarding good etiquette you too often see others behaving in a similar way and things start breaking down.  When we do see unpleasantness in the OSG community it's almost always down to a small number of uses being dis-respectful or manipulative, then others seem to think that's OK and join in and use similar emotive and aggressive language .  It's far better to nip stuff like this in the bud and set out what is appropriate etiquette than let things slip.



Quote:
And isn't the real name the one in the 'from' field?



Quote:
[url=http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org][/url]




Only for those who follow the mailing list, the forum just uses the username.


Robert.

------------------
Post generated by Mail2Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
robertosfield
OSG Project Lead


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 12353

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:58 am    Post subject:
Shadow Shenanigans (Implementing shadows in OpenMW and associated experiments)
Reply with quote

Hi Bret,

On 22 September 2017 at 08:40, bret curtis < (
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!
)> wrote:
Quote:
AnyOldName3, or AON3 for short, is a respected OpenMW developer. I don't see how their nickname has any merit on a technical discussion. Maybe they want to distance themselves from their work and keep a pseudonym, who are we to care so long as they are willing and able to contribute?


What works for the OpenMW doesn't work for us.  We a big community with an established human name rule.  It's perfectly fine to use a pseudonym but it's not fine to disregard this convention - it exists for a reason, to encourage users to relate to each others a human beings.  Once you start making exceptions there your erode the foundation for rules.



Robert.

------------------
Post generated by Mail2Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
psi29a
Newbie


Joined: 12 Aug 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Do I need to change mine?

I've never used OSG's ML, just purely kept my questions and comments on the forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
psi29a
Newbie


Joined: 12 Aug 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:07 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Sorry to keep spaming, but noticed here:
http://lists.openscenegraph.org/pipermail/osg-users-openscenegraph.org/2017-September/date.html

That AnyOldName3 is listed by his real-name: Chris

Or am I still missing something?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
robertosfield
OSG Project Lead


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 12353

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject:
Shadow Shenanigans (Implementing shadows in OpenMW and associated experiments)
Reply with quote

On 22 September 2017 at 09:07, bret curtis < (
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!
)> wrote:
Quote:
Sorry to keep spaming, but noticed here:
http://lists.openscenegraph.org/pipermail/osg-users-openscenegraph.org/2017-September/date.html

That AnyOldName3 is listed by his real-name: Chris

Or am I still missing something?


Yes... email you get to see email addresses of the sender, forum you don't you just get the username they adopt, the more differences in the they way things look to ML or forum users the less cohesive the community will be.



All I am asking is for people to act like grown ups, respect the rules and respect each other, not try to be "clever" or perpetuate an "in joke".


And no, being respectful and inclusive doesn't mean allowing people to do whatever they want,  it means have some basic rules that everyone abides by for the sake of the community.

Please remember, the OSG is a professional grade scene graph, the majority of the OSG community are at work, with a smaller number being enthusiasts working in their spare time at home.



If you want to be unprofessonal and not respect rules then the OSG community isn't the appropriate outlet for you.  All I'm asking for is that users pick human names, it's a simple first step to helping work within the community.



Robert.

------------------
Post generated by Mail2Forum
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    OpenSceneGraph Forum Forum Index -> General All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum Replies Posted
No new posts Shadow Implement. FulltimeKiller General 7 Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:40 am View latest post
No new posts How to cast shadows from different li... hbaqueiro General [forum] 0 Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:05 pm View latest post
No new posts How to cast shadows from different li... hbaqueiro General [forum] 0 Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:01 pm View latest post
No new posts How to cast shadows from different li... hbaqueiro General [forum] 0 Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:55 pm View latest post
No new posts How to cast shadows from different li... hbaqueiro General [forum] 0 Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:53 pm View latest post


Board Security Anti Bot Question MOD - phpBB MOD against Spam Bots
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Protected by Anti-Spam ACP