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Nvidia RTX


 
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Chris Hanson
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:18 pm    Post subject:
Nvidia RTX
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Any of my OSG homies do anything with Nvidia RTX yet? I did a simple search and didn't see any overlap between OSG and RTX. 

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robertosfield
OSG Project Lead


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 12336

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject:
Nvidia RTX
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 17:17, Chris Hanson <> wrote:
Quote:
Any of my OSG homies do anything with Nvidia RTX yet? I did a simple search and didn't see any overlap between OSG and RTX.

RTX feature support is on my ROADMAP.md for the VSG ;-)

It will likely take till early summer before we've completed enough
other VSG features before we can progress on to the RTX features.

Add RTX features to the OSG should be possible, though I don't have
any plans to do this myself as my work on the VSG is close to full
time till 1.0 goes out.

Cheers,
Robert.


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Terry Welsh
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:48 pm    Post subject:
Nvidia RTX
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My research tells me that a) hybrid rendering like RTX is the way to
go for the next few years if you want real-time performance, and b)
Vulkan will have ray-tracing extensions but OpenGL will have none.

So once I get time I'd like to dig into VSG or some game engine with
Vulkan support. I don't know of any other options besides rolling your
own, and I'm not so anxious to do that with Vulkan. Would love to hear
other opinions on this.
- Terry

Quote:
On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 17:17, Chris Hanson <> wrote:
Quote:
Any of my OSG homies do anything with Nvidia RTX yet? I did a simple search and didn't see any overlap between OSG and RTX.

RTX feature support is on my ROADMAP.md for the VSG ;-)

It will likely take till early summer before we've completed enough
other VSG features before we can progress on to the RTX features.

Add RTX features to the OSG should be possible, though I don't have
any plans to do this myself as my work on the VSG is close to full
time till 1.0 goes out.

Cheers,
Robert.



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mp3butcher (Julien Valentin)
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Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Posts: 520
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject:
Re: Nvidia RTX
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Hi,
I know only few things about nvRTX technology, but I think it's something tendentious regarding NV GPU architecture hegemony (and so on manufacturers concurrence), its goal is to highlight nvidia new architecture (thread divergence everywhere).
I believe you're thinking beyond opengl or vulkan specification talking about RTX integration.
Focus on the spec before going further....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9eMciZGN4I
Well that's just my opinion man....
Cheers

Terry Welsh wrote:
My research tells me that a) hybrid rendering like RTX is the way to
go for the next few years if you want real-time performance, and b)
Vulkan will have ray-tracing extensions but OpenGL will have none.

So once I get time I'd like to dig into VSG or some game engine with
Vulkan support. I don't know of any other options besides rolling your
own, and I'm not so anxious to do that with Vulkan. Would love to hear
other opinions on this.
- Terry

Quote:
On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 17:17, Chris Hanson <> wrote:
Quote:
Any of my OSG homies do anything with Nvidia RTX yet? I did a simple search and didn't see any overlap between OSG and RTX.

RTX feature support is on my ROADMAP.md for the VSG Wink

It will likely take till early summer before we've completed enough
other VSG features before we can progress on to the RTX features.

Add RTX features to the OSG should be possible, though I don't have
any plans to do this myself as my work on the VSG is close to full
time till 1.0 goes out.

Cheers,
Robert.



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Chris Hanson
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject:
Nvidia RTX
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Well, I was wondering if there was an OpenGL RTX API anywhere, but it doesn't seem there is.

Vulkan would appear to be the way to go for the future, but since that's not ready for the oven yet (don't even have all the mise en place), it might be we just have to make a utility library to shovel OSG data into OptiX and let it do the work for now. There's always going to have to be some kind of bridge from OSG to either Vulkan or something else if no OpenGL support extension ever appears.

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Chris Hanson
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:36 pm    Post subject:
Nvidia RTX
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One of my guys pointed out this recent addition:

https://github.com/KhronosGroup/GLSL/blob/master/extensions/nv/GLSL_NV_ray_tracing.txt  


On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 9:47 PM Chris Hanson < (
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Quote:

Well, I was wondering if there was an OpenGL RTX API anywhere, but it doesn't seem there is.

Vulkan would appear to be the way to go for the future, but since that's not ready for the oven yet (don't even have all the mise en place), it might be we just have to make a utility library to shovel OSG data into OptiX and let it do the work for now. There's always going to have to be some kind of bridge from OSG to either Vulkan or something else if no OpenGL support extension ever appears.




--
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errno (Lionel Lagarde)
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 61
Location: Toulouse, France

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:16 pm    Post subject:
Nvidia RTX
Reply with quote

Hi,

It is a GLSL extension, the ray tracing functions use some input data (like the acceleration structure) that can only be constructed and uploaded using the vk API.

On 21/02/2019 13:34, Chris Hanson wrote:

Quote:
One of my guys pointed out this recent addition:

https://github.com/KhronosGroup/GLSL/blob/master/extensions/nv/GLSL_NV_ray_tracing.txt  


On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 9:47 PM Chris Hanson < (
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
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)> wrote:

Quote:

Well, I was wondering if there was an OpenGL RTX API anywhere, but it doesn't seem there is.

Vulkan would appear to be the way to go for the future, but since that's not ready for the oven yet (don't even have all the mise en place), it might be we just have to make a utility library to shovel OSG data into OptiX and let it do the work for now. There's always going to have to be some kind of bridge from OSG to either Vulkan or something else if no OpenGL support extension ever appears.




--
Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere. (
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) http://www.alphapixel.com/
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Chris Hanson
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject:
Nvidia RTX
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So, you'd need a shared GL/Vk context in order to Vk load the data and then GL trace it, if I understand correctly?

We could probably bring VSG into play to load the data. I think there's enough working code there already to do so. Or, really, we could just us what VSG has already and compose and execute the RTX commands without OSG, but copying already-composed scene data over from the OSG side.


On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 3:15 PM Lionel Lagarde < (
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Quote:

Hi,

It is a GLSL extension, the ray tracing functions use some input data (like the acceleration structure) that can only be constructed and uploaded using the vk API.

On 21/02/2019 13:34, Chris Hanson wrote:

Quote:
One of my guys pointed out this recent addition:

https://github.com/KhronosGroup/GLSL/blob/master/extensions/nv/GLSL_NV_ray_tracing.txt  


On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 9:47 PM Chris Hanson < (
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!
)> wrote:

Quote:

Well, I was wondering if there was an OpenGL RTX API anywhere, but it doesn't seem there is.

Vulkan would appear to be the way to go for the future, but since that's not ready for the oven yet (don't even have all the mise en place), it might be we just have to make a utility library to shovel OSG data into OptiX and let it do the work for now. There's always going to have to be some kind of bridge from OSG to either Vulkan or something else if no OpenGL support extension ever appears.




--
Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere. (
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) http://www.alphapixel.com/
Training • Consulting • Contracting
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errno (Lionel Lagarde)
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Toulouse, France

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:29 pm    Post subject:
Nvidia RTX
Reply with quote

The RTX examples I found (like https://iorange.github.io/p01/HappyTriangle.html) use a VK command (similar to a compute dispatch) to trigger the ray tracing:
Quote:
void vkCmdTraceRaysNVX(VkCommandBuffer commandBuffer,
VkBuffer raygenShaderBindingTableBuffer,
VkDeviceSize raygenShaderBindingOffset,
VkBuffer missShaderBindingTableBuffer,
VkDeviceSize missShaderBindingOffset,
VkDeviceSize missShaderBindingStride,
VkBuffer hitShaderBindingTableBuffer,
VkDeviceSize hitShaderBindingOffset,
VkDeviceSize hitShaderBindingStride,
uint32_t width,
uint32_t height);





This function posts the ray tracing command to a VK command queue. Finally, the main ray tracing shader "stores" the ray tracing result in an image using imageStore.
I don't know about mixing an OpenGL context and the VK counterpart (device, physical device, command queue, images...). It is maybe possible but like the CUDA /GL interoperability, it may require expansive synchronization mechanisms.

On 21/02/2019 15:19, Chris Hanson wrote:

Quote:
So, you'd need a shared GL/Vk context in order to Vk load the data and then GL trace it, if I understand correctly?

We could probably bring VSG into play to load the data. I think there's enough working code there already to do so. Or, really, we could just us what VSG has already and compose and execute the RTX commands without OSG, but copying already-composed scene data over from the OSG side.


On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 3:15 PM Lionel Lagarde < (
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!
)> wrote:

Quote:

Hi,

It is a GLSL extension, the ray tracing functions use some input data (like the acceleration structure) that can only be constructed and uploaded using the vk API.

On 21/02/2019 13:34, Chris Hanson wrote:

Quote:
One of my guys pointed out this recent addition:

https://github.com/KhronosGroup/GLSL/blob/master/extensions/nv/GLSL_NV_ray_tracing.txt  


On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 9:47 PM Chris Hanson < (
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!
)> wrote:

Quote:

Well, I was wondering if there was an OpenGL RTX API anywhere, but it doesn't seem there is.

Vulkan would appear to be the way to go for the future, but since that's not ready for the oven yet (don't even have all the mise en place), it might be we just have to make a utility library to shovel OSG data into OptiX and let it do the work for now. There's always going to have to be some kind of bridge from OSG to either Vulkan or something else if no OpenGL support extension ever appears.




--
Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere. (
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) http://www.alphapixel.com/
Training • Consulting • Contracting
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robertosfield
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:43 pm    Post subject:
Nvidia RTX
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Hi All,

I haven't looked at GL/Vulkan interoperability yet so can't provide
any clarity on this, but I can say is that there are NVidia demos show
this so it should be possible. During the dev of the VSG I've found
it useful to work on a osg2vsg utility library and program to help map
OSG image and scene graphs to VSG. This lib like VSG itself is still
in heavy development so not ready for people to pick off the shelf and
start using in applications.

As things progress I can see osg2vsg expanding beyond it's current
remit which is OSG to VSG conversions to included interoperability
features that help OSG users utilize the VSG/Vulkan within their OSG
applications. The osg2vsg and VSG are all open source (MIT license)
so if users want to write high level interoperability code for OSG/VSG
apps then I'd be happy to support this work :-)

Cheers,
Robert.


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Chris Hanson
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:07 pm    Post subject:
Nvidia RTX
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On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 6:42 PM Robert Osfield < (
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Quote:
I haven't looked at GL/Vulkan interoperability yet so can't provide
any clarity on this, but I can say is that there are NVidia demos show
this so it should be possible.


  If anyone spots an Nvidia demo that shows some OpenGL / RTX integration, please point it my way. Imma gonna need some raytraced light in my skull to make sense of this odd API structure.


  I'm inclined in the short run to just make and osg2optix layer that takes the important parts of the OSG scene graph and syncs it into OptiX and just lets it do the work. And then hope to unify it better in the future in the Vulkan space.



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