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OSG plugin for browsers


 
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Thibault Genessay
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:30 am    Post subject:
OSG plugin for browsers
Reply with quote

Hi folks,

I have been looking for quite a long time for a way to integrate
OpenSceneGraph applications in web browsers. Several plugins seem to
have emerged in the past years:
- osg4web (project created on Google code, nothing to download)
- gvsig3d (http://gvsig3d.blogspot.com/2010/02/openscenegraph-plugin-for-firefox.html).
Very promising, but I can't find any source code, if any is to be
published some day.
- The so-called "OSG Viewer Firefox Plugin 1.0". I can't find where
this one originates from, so I didn't install it

Other people have thought of alternatives to display 3D content:
- osgjs - which re-implements the OSG in Javascript. Although the API
is very close to the C++ one, it is not a way to embed an OSG app in a
browser
- webGL. If I am not mistaken, this leaves out the OSG entirely, and
only aims at displaying 3D models. Kind of a new VRML thing.

I recently stumbled upon FireBreath (www.firebreath.org, licenses: BSD
or GPL). This very smart software (at least, according to the videos
on the website) let you build plugins that are compatible with all
major browsers by relying on either ActiveX (for IE) or the NPAPI
(other browsers). BUT: it only works on Windows platforms.

I have also tried to develop my own plugins for Firefox and Safari.
Both are so huge and so complicated (e.g. lack of accurate
documentation of Firefox) that I never managed to build something
convincing. Plus you have to focus on each browser's specifics instead
of focusing on the OSG/Javascript interaction.


At this point, and because I somehow need to have users being able to
view OSG content on the web in a robust and predictable manner, I am
leaning towards FireBreath. Not having to care about the browsers'
internals is such a huge benefit that I can accept its Windows-only
nature. However, if any people on this list have experience on
developing cross-browser, cross-platform plugins, I'd welcome all
input, suggestions, trout slaps for being such an MS-ass.

It is quite evident that the ideal plugin would be:
- available for all platforms (even smartphones)
- for all browsers
- in all languages (UI language: e.g. English, French)
- in-line with the current OSG development
- fully open-source, of course
- built just like a native OSG executable

I am very willingful to share my work on this plugin, but I feel like
going alone is not a good option. My needs are quite basic, but my
experience with browser plugins is small and I certainly miss out
important features. Plus the task of making it right takes certainly
more than a decision of a single person. I think the long-term success
of a browser plugin needs some planification.

Any comments, suggestions, etc. are very welcome

Cheers,

Thibault


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Serge Lages
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:39 am    Post subject:
OSG plugin for browsers
Reply with quote

Hi,

Did you looked at Google Native Client :
http://code.google.com/chrome/nativeclient/


Cheers,

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Thibault Genessay < (
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!
)> wrote:
Quote:
Hi folks,

I have been looking for quite a long time for a way to integrate
OpenSceneGraph applications in web browsers. Several plugins seem to
have emerged in the past years:
- osg4web (project created on Google code, nothing to download)
- gvsig3d (http://gvsig3d.blogspot.com/2010/02/openscenegraph-plugin-for-firefox.html).
Very promising, but I can't find any source code, if any is to be
published some day.
- The so-called "OSG Viewer Firefox Plugin 1.0". I can't find where
this one originates from, so I didn't install it

Other people have thought of alternatives to display 3D content:
- osgjs - which re-implements the OSG in Javascript. Although the API
is very close to the C++ one, it is not a way to embed an OSG app in a
browser
- webGL. If I am not mistaken, this leaves out the OSG entirely, and
only aims at displaying 3D models. Kind of a new VRML thing.

I recently stumbled upon FireBreath (www.firebreath.org, licenses: BSD
or GPL). This very smart software (at least, according to the videos
on the website) let you build plugins that are compatible with all
major browsers by relying on either ActiveX (for IE) or the NPAPI
(other browsers). BUT: it only works on Windows platforms.

I have also tried to develop my own plugins for Firefox and Safari.
Both are so huge and so complicated (e.g. lack of accurate
documentation of Firefox) that I never managed to build something
convincing. Plus you have to focus on each browser's specifics instead
of focusing on the OSG/Javascript interaction.


At this point, and because I somehow need to have users being able to
view OSG content on the web in a robust and predictable manner, I am
leaning towards FireBreath. Not having to care about the browsers'
internals is such a huge benefit that I can accept its Windows-only
nature. However, if any people on this list have experience on
developing cross-browser, cross-platform plugins, I'd welcome all
input, suggestions, trout slaps for being such an MS-ass.

It is quite evident that the ideal plugin would be:
- available for all platforms (even smartphones)
- for all browsers
- in all languages (UI language: e.g. English, French)
- in-line with the current OSG development
- fully open-source, of course
- built just like a native OSG executable

I am very willingful to share my work on this plugin, but I feel like
going alone is not a good option. My needs are quite basic, but my
experience with browser plugins is small and I certainly miss out
important features. Plus the task of making it right takes certainly
more than a decision of a single person. I think the long-term success
of a browser plugin needs some planification.

Any comments, suggestions, etc. are very welcome

Cheers,

Thibault
_______________________________________________
osg-users mailing list
(
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!
)
http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org



--
Serge Lages
http://www.tharsis-software.com

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Thibault Genessay
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:50 am    Post subject:
OSG plugin for browsers
Reply with quote

Hi Serge,

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Serge Lages <> wrote:
Quote:
Hi,
Did you looked at Google Native Client :
http://code.google.com/chrome/nativeclient/

Looks like Google is always one step ahead ... Has anybody tried it
with an OSG-based project ?

However I think using it would lock us into Chrome, which was
something I wanted to avoid in the first place. Decisions, decisions.

Thank you for the pointer

Thibault



Quote:
Cheers,
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Thibault Genessay <>
wrote:
Quote:

Hi folks,

I have been looking for quite a long time for a way to integrate
OpenSceneGraph applications in web browsers. Several plugins seem to
have emerged in the past years:
- osg4web (project created on Google code, nothing to download)
- gvsig3d
(http://gvsig3d.blogspot.com/2010/02/openscenegraph-plugin-for-firefox.html).
Very promising, but I can't find any source code, if any is to be
published some day.
- The so-called "OSG Viewer Firefox Plugin 1.0". I can't find where
this one originates from, so I didn't install it

Other people have thought of alternatives to display 3D content:
- osgjs - which re-implements the OSG in Javascript. Although the API
is very close to the C++ one, it is not a way to embed an OSG app in a
browser
- webGL. If I am not mistaken, this leaves out the OSG entirely, and
only aims at displaying 3D models. Kind of a new VRML thing.

I recently stumbled upon FireBreath (www.firebreath.org, licenses: BSD
or GPL). This very smart software (at least, according to the videos
on the website) let you build plugins that are compatible with all
major browsers by relying on either ActiveX (for IE) or the NPAPI
(other browsers). BUT: it only works on Windows platforms.

I have also tried to develop my own plugins for Firefox and Safari.
Both are so huge and so complicated (e.g. lack of accurate
documentation of Firefox) that I never managed to build something
convincing. Plus you have to focus on each browser's specifics instead
of focusing on the OSG/Javascript interaction.


At this point, and because I somehow need to have users being able to
view OSG content on the web in a robust and predictable manner, I am
leaning towards FireBreath. Not having to care about the browsers'
internals is such a huge benefit that I can accept its Windows-only
nature. However, if any people on this list have experience on
developing cross-browser, cross-platform plugins, I'd welcome all
input, suggestions, trout slaps for being such an MS-ass.

It is quite evident that the ideal plugin would be:
- available for all platforms (even smartphones)
- for all browsers
- in all languages (UI language: e.g. English, French)
- in-line with the current OSG development
- fully open-source, of course
- built just like a native OSG executable

I am very willingful to share my work on this plugin, but I feel like
going alone is not a good option. My needs are quite basic, but my
experience with browser plugins is small and I certainly miss out
important features. Plus the task of making it right takes certainly
more than a decision of a single person. I think the long-term success
of a browser plugin needs some planification.

Any comments, suggestions, etc. are very welcome

Cheers,

Thibault




--
Serge Lages
http://www.tharsis-software.com






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Chris 'Xenon' Hanson
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:13 pm    Post subject:
OSG plugin for browsers
Reply with quote

On 4/7/2011 3:30 AM, Thibault Genessay wrote:
Quote:
Hi folks,
I have been looking for quite a long time for a way to integrate
OpenSceneGraph applications in web browsers. Several plugins seem to
have emerged in the past years:
- osg4web (project created on Google code, nothing to download)


The code is available at
cvs -d :pserver: /cvsroot/unigrids co
projects/osg/cineca/web/osg4web_r2


I haven't tried checking it out myself.

--
Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere. http://www.alphapixel.com/
Digital Imaging. OpenGL. Scene Graphs. GIS. GPS. Training. Consulting. Contracting.
"There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist." - Xen


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Peter Amstutz
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:28 pm    Post subject:
OSG plugin for browsers
Reply with quote

On 4/7/2011 5:30 AM, Thibault Genessay wrote:
Quote:
Other people have thought of alternatives to display 3D content:
- osgjs - which re-implements the OSG in Javascript. Although the API
is very close to the C++ one, it is not a way to embed an OSG app in a
browser
- webGL. If I am not mistaken, this leaves out the OSG entirely, and
only aims at displaying 3D models. Kind of a new VRML thing.

Just to clarify, WebGL consists of Javascript bindings for OpenGL, which
are used by osgjs for rendering. So if you already have a C++ program,
you would need to port it to javascript in order to use such libraries.
Possibly you could emit opengl calls from the C++ server side and
execute them in the client with WebGL, but that would be pretty
bandwidth intensive and subject to lag.

Broadly speaking, if the goal is to execute native code using OSG in the
browser, you're going to run up against all the security, hardware
architecture etc problems that plague all such efforts.

My preference would be for a solution that transmits the scene graph to
the browser to be rendered using something like osgjs and the server
sends scene graph updates, but that is somewhat complex and difficult to
do transparently as osg lacks the necessary "value changed" hooks to
record the changes that occur in the scene graph from frame to frame.

--
Peter Amstutz
Senior Software Engineer
Technology Solutions Experts
Natick, MA
02131



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luigicalori
User


Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:43 am    Post subject:
OSG plugin for browsers
Reply with quote

Hi everybody, nice to see again interest on this topic

The following link is old, I' ve moved stuff on different repos:

"latest" windows stuff is available as a bazaar checkout at

http://rvn05.plx.cineca.it:12000/files/virtualrome/bazaar_repo/BrowserEmbed/test_merge/

This is a (quite confused and uncleaned) mix of our own osg
"application" (specialized manipulators, node visitors and event
handlers) + some experiments on wrapping mainly under windows with
different approaches.

Under Windows (and Linux) I have tried the "out of process" tecnique:
The browser plugin is kept minimal and it just spawn another process
where all the OSG code lives, under windows the plugin process
pass the window id to the osg app that in turns subclass it and then
start the viewer.
The main reason for doing that derive from our first attempt of osg4web
in VirtualRome.org project that was living in the same FFox process and
was affected by browser crashes on repeated reload.


Under Linux, we have a simpler experiment using Firebreath and Gtk Plug
/ Socket to allow external process.

the linux stuff is a Bazaar branch at lp:osg4weblinux

We have also an example on OSX but it can not use out of process.

We would be really happy to share ideas, suggestion and code, as this is
really a though field...


Our short term plan is to:

consolidate the repo and build structure, possibly migrating to social
coding platform (bzr, github..... suggestion welcome)
separate our Application specific code from the (possibly) general
plugin stuff
use FireBreath for all the platforms to provide browser independence
and minimal javascript wrapping

see weather out of process is really useful for stability even with
current browser architecture:

longer term:

setup consistent deployment across browser (we have experimented firefox
only embedding inside extension, as found in
define javascript helpers and html test pages
see if rendering abstraction could be implemented within FireBreath

We' ll post as soon as we have better code, any suggestion or
contribution welcome


P.S

All the code is currently HIGHlY experimental (read messy).
As we do not have cleanly separated the application code from plugin
code, the license is to be considered GPL , as soon as we will succeed
in cleaning we' ll put the correct license and copyright disclaimer on
top of all source files. We are open to release the code that is
perceived as useful with the same license as OSG.

the Authors are

Luigi Calori
Carlo Camporesi
Bruno Fanini
Guido Baldassarri
Lorenzo Lodi


Best regards
Luigi




On 07/04/2011 17.13, Chris 'Xenon' Hanson wrote:
Quote:
On 4/7/2011 3:30 AM, Thibault Genessay wrote:
Quote:
Hi folks,
I have been looking for quite a long time for a way to integrate
OpenSceneGraph applications in web browsers. Several plugins seem to
have emerged in the past years:
- osg4web (project created on Google code, nothing to download)

The code is available at
cvs -d :pserver: /cvsroot/unigrids co
projects/osg/cineca/web/osg4web_r2


I haven't tried checking it out myself.




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Leo Salom
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:04 am    Post subject:
OSG plugin for browsers
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Hi all,

I am part of the gvsig3d team.  We had problems with our plugging and using different browsers, specially in linux, because we did not want to develop using static compilation (the only way to get it running in linux we had) because Firerfox give us problems loading the plugging dependencies.


We also tried using Firebreath, is a promising framework for web pluggings but again the Linux version give us problems this time due to the canvas that Firebreath returns to us was  not capable to render OSG. I don't know if they fixed this already.


Finally we moved to WebGL, the problem with WebGL is that is based in javascript. That means that if you want to use your c++ code, you must port it to javascript first. If you are interested in WebGL development check osgjs and the closure library.


Finally we didnt release the code because it was somehow very unstable, If you want to continue with the plugging development we can send you our source code, but we think is a dead end for us.


Best regards.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Thibault Genessay < (
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!
)> wrote:
Quote:
Hi folks,

I have been looking for quite a long time for a way to integrate
OpenSceneGraph applications in web browsers. Several plugins seem to
have emerged in the past years:
- osg4web (project created on Google code, nothing to download)
- gvsig3d (http://gvsig3d.blogspot.com/2010/02/openscenegraph-plugin-for-firefox.html).
Very promising, but I can't find any source code, if any is to be
published some day.
- The so-called "OSG Viewer Firefox Plugin 1.0". I can't find where
this one originates from, so I didn't install it

Other people have thought of alternatives to display 3D content:
- osgjs - which re-implements the OSG in Javascript. Although the API
is very close to the C++ one, it is not a way to embed an OSG app in a
browser
- webGL. If I am not mistaken, this leaves out the OSG entirely, and
only aims at displaying 3D models. Kind of a new VRML thing.

I recently stumbled upon FireBreath (www.firebreath.org, licenses: BSD
or GPL). This very smart software (at least, according to the videos
on the website) let you build plugins that are compatible with all
major browsers by relying on either ActiveX (for IE) or the NPAPI
(other browsers). BUT: it only works on Windows platforms.

I have also tried to develop my own plugins for Firefox and Safari.
Both are so huge and so complicated (e.g. lack of accurate
documentation of Firefox) that I never managed to build something
convincing. Plus you have to focus on each browser's specifics instead
of focusing on the OSG/Javascript interaction.


At this point, and because I somehow need to have users being able to
view OSG content on the web in a robust and predictable manner, I am
leaning towards FireBreath. Not having to care about the browsers'
internals is such a huge benefit that I can accept its Windows-only
nature. However, if any people on this list have experience on
developing cross-browser, cross-platform plugins, I'd welcome all
input, suggestions, trout slaps for being such an MS-ass.

It is quite evident that the ideal plugin would be:
- available for all platforms (even smartphones)
- for all browsers
- in all languages (UI language: e.g. English, French)
- in-line with the current OSG development
- fully open-source, of course
- built just like a native OSG executable

I am very willingful to share my work on this plugin, but I feel like
going alone is not a good option. My needs are quite basic, but my
experience with browser plugins is small and I certainly miss out
important features. Plus the task of making it right takes certainly
more than a decision of a single person. I think the long-term success
of a browser plugin needs some planification.

Any comments, suggestions, etc. are very welcome

Cheers,

Thibault
_______________________________________________
osg-users mailing list
(
Only registered users can see emails on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!
)
http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org



--
Leonardo Salom Muñoz
Instituto de Automática e Informática Industrial  http://www.ai2.upv.es
http://gvsig3d.blogspot.com
Ciudad Politécnica de la Innovación
Universidad Politécnica de Valencia

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Thibault Genessay
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:42 am    Post subject:
OSG plugin for browsers
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Hi all,

First, thanks Chris, Peter, Luigi and Leo for the replies. I now have
a better overview of the problem.
I had not noticed that FireBreath was cross-platform, and will give
your source code links a shot as soon as I have time.

In the meantime, I am trying FireBreath, and will post my progress here.

Thanks again for your input

Cheers

Thibault


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luigicalori
User


Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:16 am    Post subject:
OSG plugin for browsers
Reply with quote

On 04/09/2011 10:42 AM, Thibault Genessay wrote:
Quote:
Hi all,

First, thanks Chris, Peter, Luigi and Leo for the replies. I now have
a better overview of the problem.
I had not noticed that FireBreath was cross-platform, and will give
your source code links a shot as soon as I have time.

In the meantime, I am trying FireBreath, and will post my progress here.
If you are trying Firebreath on Linux, my code on Launchpad needs some
patching on the FireBreath side, at least
the 1.4.2 release,
As soon as I have time, I' ll do a clone on Firebreath GitHub site, let
me knowif you need info

Regards
Luigi

Quote:
Thanks again for your input

Cheers

Thibault





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Andreas Goebel
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:12 pm    Post subject:
OSG plugin for browsers
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Hi Thibault,



Am 07.04.2011 11:30, schrieb Thibault Genessay:
Quote:
Hi folks,

Quote:
published some day.
- The so-called "OSG Viewer Firefox Plugin 1.0". I can't find where
this one originates from, so I didn't install it

This was written by me. At the time I didn´t succeed in uploading it to
a firefox-plugin-site. You can look for posts with my name and will find
the complete source on this list, too.



Regards,

Andreas


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